Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

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Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

jtwork
Hello, I'm trying to set up a system with RTKLib consisting of a uBlox 6T receiver and another device that outputs Novatel OEM messages.  I was hoping to use the 6T as my rover, and then have the OEM output be used as my base station.  I attempted to simply turn on all of the RAW messages I see available in the OEM message list, but I don't get any success with this, as I only can see the uBlox and it tells me it's operating in "SINGLE" mode.

My question is if someone knows the proper configuration so that I can use the Novatel OEM format in my system.

Thanks!
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Re: Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

antongstrydom
Hi

With your 6T you need to turn on RXM-RAW and RXM-SFRB else it will not work. What Novatel device are you using? Is it dual frequency?
What are you using to communicate between the Base an Rover




On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 7:14 PM, jtwork <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello, I'm trying to set up a system with RTKLib consisting of a uBlox 6T
receiver and another device that outputs Novatel OEM messages.  I was hoping
to use the 6T as my rover, and then have the OEM output be used as my base
station.  I attempted to simply turn on all of the RAW messages I see
available in the OEM message list, but I don't get any success with this, as
I only can see the uBlox and it tells me it's operating in "SINGLE" mode.

My question is if someone knows the proper configuration so that I can use
the Novatel OEM format in my system.

Thanks!



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Re: Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

jtwork
Hello,

I have turned on both RXM-RAW and RXM-SFRB messages, and using RTKLib I can successfully get a SINGLE lock.  So far I can't get my base station to work in conjunction to get a real rtk fix.

I'm using the Novatel OEMV-3.  I found that it outputs RTCM messages, so I tried enabling the RTCM3 messages 1002, 1006, 1007, 1008, and 1019, however when I try connecting to the Novatel as both a 'base station' and then later as 'correction', it does not ever find a fix beyond "SINGLE".

I did previously try enabling the OEMV messages like RAWEPHEM that were listed as supported, but that didn't seem to work either.  I have also input the base station position information in the options.

Any help with further configuration would be greatly appreciated.  I suspect that I might just have the wrong messages setup or have something wrong with my connection settings, but I am really not too sure at the moment...
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Re: Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

antongstrydom
Hi there

First of all it sounds like your 6T works and I take it that is connected to a PC via COM(?). Is the Base connected to the same PC and if so what port and does the PC see it? Easy way to check is to load Putty,opening the port that the unit is connected to and seeing what you receiving from the receiver.

I would not enable RTCM3 on the Novatel receiver and keep it basic to start off with

Is your Novatel single or dual frequency?

Regards



On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 2:25 PM, jtwork <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

I have turned on both RXM-RAW and RXM-SFRB messages, and using RTKLib I can
successfully get a SINGLE lock.  So far I can't get my base station to work
in conjunction to get a real rtk fix.

I'm using the Novatel OEMV-3.  I found that it outputs RTCM messages, so I
tried enabling the RTCM3 messages 1002, 1006, 1007, 1008, and 1019, however
when I try connecting to the Novatel as both a 'base station' and then later
as 'correction', it does not ever find a fix beyond "SINGLE".

I did previously try enabling the OEMV messages like RAWEPHEM that were
listed as supported, but that didn't seem to work either.  I have also input
the base station position information in the options.

Any help with further configuration would be greatly appreciated.  I suspect
that I might just have the wrong messages setup or have something wrong with
my connection settings, but I am really not too sure at the moment...



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Re: Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

jtwork
Thanks for your reply.

I'm connecting to both of them over the network actually.  I have telnet into the Novatel and see that it outputs all of the messages I specify correctly, but I'll try disabling the RTCM and enabling only the OEM messages listed in the documentation and see if that helps.

The OEMV-3 is listed as a "triple frequency + L-band" receiver.

Just to check, should I be connecting to the Novatel as a "base station" or as "corrections"?  Those two options are a bit confusing to me..
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Re: Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

antongstrydom
In reply to this post by jtwork
That's correct Base

------Original Message------
From: jtwork
Sender: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
ReplyTo: Open Source GPS-related discussion and support
Subject: Re: [FOSS-GPS] Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base
Sent: Aug 27, 2014 8:44 PM

Thanks for your reply.

I'm connecting to both of them over the network actually.  I have telnet
into the Novatel and see that it outputs all of the messages I specify
correctly, but I'll try disabling the RTCM and enabling only the OEM
messages listed in the documentation and see if that helps.

The OEMV-3 is listed as a "triple frequency + L-band" receiver.

Just to check, should I be connecting to the Novatel as a "base station" or
as "corrections"?  Those two options are a bit confusing to me..



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Re: Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

jtwork
I actually had previously enabled the ASCII OEM messages, so I thought by enabling the binary ones, namely RANGEB, RANGECMPB, RAWEPHEMB, IONUTCB, and RAWWAASFRAMEB that I would solve the issue.

Unfortunately, even with this change I'm not seeing any output from RTKLib, whether it's with the Novatel as a base station or just connection it in single mode as the rover.  I don't even see it as reading any satellite info in the small graphs.

I'm uncertain as to the problem since when I telnet to the Novatel, I can plainly see that it is outputting all of the data perfectly, in the odd way that the Novatel outputs binary at least.
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Re: Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

antongstrydom
Hi there 

Things do not make sense to me.

Lets go to basics before we carry on, connect the Novatel receiver to a COM port and make sure you are getting the proper messages from it. Run RTKNAVI and look at what you are getting from the receiver. to do this open RTKNAVI and click on the box circled in red as per the attachment

Select Rover or base and have a look if you getting the proper messages. Once you have figured this out everything should work

Regards


On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 3:34 PM, jtwork <[hidden email]> wrote:
I actually had previously enabled the ASCII OEM messages, so I thought by
enabling the binary ones, namely RANGEB, RANGECMPB, RAWEPHEMB, IONUTCB, and
RAWWAASFRAMEB that I would solve the issue.

Unfortunately, even with this change I'm not seeing any output from RTKLib,
whether it's with the Novatel as a base station or just connection it in
single mode as the rover.  I don't even see it as reading any satellite info
in the small graphs.

I'm uncertain as to the problem since when I telnet to the Novatel, I can
plainly see that it is outputting all of the data perfectly, in the odd way
that the Novatel outputs binary at least.



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Re: Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

jtwork
Ok, I've connected the receiver and found the following in that window:

The uBlox messages display as being received in the actual ublox format, which is good.

The OEM messages I can see being input as hex, and then ASCII as well in the format that the OEMV-3 is default outputting, however when I switch the format drop down to Novatel OEM6 (there's no actual option for OEMV, so I assume I'm intended to select OEM6), I see no proper parsing of the data.

The ASCII is appearing in this sort of format:

RAWEPHEMB!
   0:  01 23 45 67 | 89 AB CD EF
   8:  01 23 45 67 | 89 AB CD EF
  16:  01 23 45 67 | 89 AB CD EF
  ...

and so on.  I'm looking through the Novatel documentation now to see if it's possible to output in raw binary, but by default when enabling messages like RAWEPHEMB that is what I get...
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Re: Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

jtwork
I think I may have discovered the issue... I'm reading the 'log' information, which is this odd formatted binary info.  It looks like in order to actually get the raw binary I have to connect via the serial like you suggested, however that is impossible in my case since that port is in active use by someone else.. plus I don't actually have physical access to it!

So, I guess unless there's some way to enable raw output over the network connection, or I write some weird parser, I won't be using this method...
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Re: Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

antongstrydom
Hi there

On certain Novatel receivers you can get the proper data via TCP I am just not sure which ones, The ones I use only have 3 com ports rs232 and bluetooth and I get good data from them

Regards



On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 5:00 PM, jtwork <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think I may have discovered the issue... I'm reading the 'log' information,
which is this odd formatted binary info.  It looks like in order to actually
get the raw binary I have to connect via the serial like you suggested,
however that is impossible in my case since that port is in active use by
someone else.. plus I don't actually have physical access to it!

So, I guess unless there's some way to enable raw output over the network
connection, or I write some weird parser, I won't be using this method...



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Re: Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

jtwork
Hello,

I developed a simple script to take the log output, parse it for the hex I actually want, and output that back to rtknavi.  I have verified that my script is sending the bytes properly, and matched up one of the messages (RAWWAASFRAME) to the spec in the Novatel manual.

I've tried both outputting sets of 16 bytes at a time, or holding all the bytes until I have a full message and sending that all at once.  In both cases, I can see RTKlib get the hex properly, but it never parses it as an OEM message.  At this point I'm really not sure what to do, since I know for sure the proper data is sending (I checked every part of the packet structure!), but rtklib just isn't recognizing it!


On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Anton Strydom <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi there

On certain Novatel receivers you can get the proper data via TCP I am just not sure which ones, The ones I use only have 3 com ports rs232 and bluetooth and I get good data from them

Regards



On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 5:00 PM, jtwork <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think I may have discovered the issue... I'm reading the 'log' information,
which is this odd formatted binary info.  It looks like in order to actually
get the raw binary I have to connect via the serial like you suggested,
however that is impossible in my case since that port is in active use by
someone else.. plus I don't actually have physical access to it!

So, I guess unless there's some way to enable raw output over the network
connection, or I write some weird parser, I won't be using this method...



--
View this message in context: http://open-source-gps-related-discussion-and-support.1099874.n2.nabble.com/Using-RTKLib-with-Novatel-OEM-device-as-base-tp7572967p7572977.html
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Re: Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

antongstrydom
Good evening

Could you send me some sample data as well as the exact model of your receiver

Regards

Anton



On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 8:35 PM, john taflan <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

I developed a simple script to take the log output, parse it for the hex I actually want, and output that back to rtknavi.  I have verified that my script is sending the bytes properly, and matched up one of the messages (RAWWAASFRAME) to the spec in the Novatel manual.

I've tried both outputting sets of 16 bytes at a time, or holding all the bytes until I have a full message and sending that all at once.  In both cases, I can see RTKlib get the hex properly, but it never parses it as an OEM message.  At this point I'm really not sure what to do, since I know for sure the proper data is sending (I checked every part of the packet structure!), but rtklib just isn't recognizing it!


On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Anton Strydom <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi there

On certain Novatel receivers you can get the proper data via TCP I am just not sure which ones, The ones I use only have 3 com ports rs232 and bluetooth and I get good data from them

Regards



On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 5:00 PM, jtwork <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think I may have discovered the issue... I'm reading the 'log' information,
which is this odd formatted binary info.  It looks like in order to actually
get the raw binary I have to connect via the serial like you suggested,
however that is impossible in my case since that port is in active use by
someone else.. plus I don't actually have physical access to it!

So, I guess unless there's some way to enable raw output over the network
connection, or I write some weird parser, I won't be using this method...



--
View this message in context: http://open-source-gps-related-discussion-and-support.1099874.n2.nabble.com/Using-RTKLib-with-Novatel-OEM-device-as-base-tp7572967p7572977.html
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Re: Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

jtwork
Hello,

Below is an example of the one of the messages in the printed data output from the OEM receiver:

RAWWAASFRAMEB!
    0:  00 44 12 1C | 1F 01 02 26
    8:  30 00 15 00 | 75 A0 0F 07
   16:  70 31 3c 18 | 08 00 B0 00
   24:  E4 58 EF 0C | 1C 00 00 00
   32:  8A 00 00 00 | 02 00 00 00
   40:  C6 0A 00 07 | FA DF FF FF
   48:  9F FC 00 40 | 03 FF DF FD
   56:  FF FF FF FF | 9F FD 7B 97
   64:  9D 57 B9 6B | 80 CE 8B 0C
   72:  1C 00 00 00 | E7 F2 70

My script simply reads this formatted data, and parses the hex into a string that is sent to the receiver.  For example, it would be something along the lines of:
data = '\x00\x44\x12\x1c\x1f\x01\x02\x26...\xe7\xf2\x70'
socket.send(data)

I attempted just typing out an entire packet and sending that manually, but have also confirmed that my script does parse it correctly by viewing the hex input on the screen you showed me.

My receiver model is the OEMV-3: http://www.novatel.com/products/gnss-receivers/oem-receiver-boards/oemv-receivers/oemv-3/

I have viewed the firmware quick-reference manual: http://www.novatel.com/support/info/documents/580
It does indicate that the RAWWAASFRAME is formatted like the log output shows, so I'm really not certain where I'm going wrong, unless the log data is for some reason entirely different from the data that RTKlib is looking for...!

Thanks for your help.
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Re: Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

DavidKelley@ITSware.net
In reply to this post by jtwork
Can you please send me a file of the original and your parsed and filtered output and I will run them through a couple of different RTCM parserswhich we use and see what gives.  I presume in all this you have the right RTCM 104 specs to guide you as well.

Regards, David Kelley


-------- Original message --------
From: jtwork <[hidden email]>
Date:09/03/2014 5:46 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FOSS-GPS] Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

Hello,

Below is an example of the one of the messages in the printed data output
from the OEM receiver:



My script simply reads this formatted data, and parses the hex into a string
that is sent to the receiver.  For example, it would be something along the
lines of:


I attempted just typing out an entire packet and sending that manually, but
have also confirmed that my script does parse it correctly by viewing the
hex input on the screen you showed me.

My receiver model is the OEMV-3:
http://www.novatel.com/products/gnss-receivers/oem-receiver-boards/oemv-receivers/oemv-3/

I have viewed the firmware quick-reference manual:
http://www.novatel.com/support/info/documents/580
It does indicate that the RAWWAASFRAME is formatted like the log output
shows, so I'm really not certain where I'm going wrong, unless the log data
is for some reason entirely different from the data that RTKlib is looking
for...!

Thanks for your help.



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Re: Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

jtwork
David,

I'm actually not using the RTCM output, but rather the proprietary OEMV output.  The receiver does output RTCM data, but it appears to still be encapsulated in the OEMV format when doing so. (the specification shows the same header info as the other messages)
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Re: Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

DavidKelley@ITSware.net
In reply to this post by jtwork
I am sorry for not reading your thread better, will do so next.  When I have looked at the source code for the RTKLIB consumption of other devices (hemisphere and ublox) it simply ignores messages it does not care to cope with - so there is no need to filter out unwanted messages in the stream.  And when you need to add a message detail, it is fairly easy to do so. But I presume you do not want to code there. I am not clearly seeing your problem. Did you expect the small table you posted to be a valid RTCM defined msg then, or to be in the Novatel format? If this was valid RTCM, then 3 byes in should be the message type, 12 bits long, and I can not find that pattern.  How are you doing your framing logic?

And, to harken back to basics a bit as per Antons prior comment,  did you every mange to use the OEMV-3 as a rover in "single mode?


Regards, David Kelley, 626-485-7528 sent from a touch screen, please excuse my spelling. 


-------- Original message --------
From: jtwork <[hidden email]>
Date:09/03/2014 8:35 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FOSS-GPS] Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

David,

I'm actually not using the RTCM output, but rather the proprietary OEMV
output.  The receiver does output RTCM data, but it appears to still be
encapsulated in the OEMV format when doing so. (the specification shows the
same header info as the other messages)



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Re: Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

jtwork
David,

The message is the 'binary log' output for the data message in the Novatel OEM format.  The hex that it displays is supposedly a correct message, but I just realized after somehow thinking there was no issue that rather than the 'AA4412' sync chars that are supposed to start off the message, every message starts with '004412'.  I'm not sure why this is, especially since even in the Novatel documentation there is no mention of a replacement of 00 for AA, and the Novatel parser in the source code definitely uses 'AA4412' as the sync chars.  Perhaps there is some sort of strange header only for the logs?  I'm going to attempt to replace the 00 with AA, and replace the CRC with a correct one (I just tried simply replacing the 00 with AA to no avail), and see if that makes any difference.

I have been attempting to use the OEMV-3 as a single-mode rover as well, though at this point I'm just looking at the 'RTK monitor' output to see if it can receive the data and actually parse it as the correct format.
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Re: Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

jtwork
David,

(somehow the last message was put in a new thread, returning it back to here...)

Could you perhaps link me to one of these 3rd party tools or open toolkits?  I'm new to working with these GPS receivers so I am quite unfamiliar with everything!

Thanks,

John

davidkelley wrote
I am puzzled, you should at least be able to use one of 3rd party tools, another open toolkit, or the vendors tools to prove this data stream can be decoded.  There are many tools out there for Novatel.  Once that works, I would then perhaps think the parser step can be of value.  If you send a snapshot of what you are getting I can take a look, or ask a Novatel person next week at ION, but your results seem odd to me. In my limited experience people often presume a msg or data product in the stream that is not in fact there, so I have learned to expend the effort to confirm that first.  

Regards, David Kelley
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Re: [Spam] Re: Using RTKLib with Novatel OEM device as base

DavidKelley@ITSware.net

John:
Did not NovAtel or the vendor you obtained your modules from provide
such a thing?   In our shop we do not use their products, mostly due to
simply being content with other devices (please note that they make
great stuff), so I myself have never built a decoder for them.

But as you have noted, RTKLIB has one, as does gnsstk.  So does GIPSY if
you are allowed to access it.  Those are more or less the top open
toolkits. Keep in mind that the RTKCONV tool may still be you best bet
for a simple GUI tool, off hand I do not know how to "turn up" the debug
level there to get some helpful clues.  If anyone else does, please post.

A search for: 'novatel gps binary decoder' shows one I have heard other
use, as well a some source code examples.

 From the University of Texas (Austin) group there is a tool at:
http://www.gpstk.org/bin/view/Documentation/NovaRinexManual

And I do not know if TEQC can also process it (it converts just about
everything else)
A quick scan of the mail traffic suggests it does not, but this a tool
to know about in any event.
http://facility.unavco.org/software/teqc/teqc.html

I am concerned that the above tosses you into deeper waters than someone
who simply want to 'use' GPS may care to be but offer it in the hope of
doing some good.
Good Luck, David Kelley


On 9/4/2014 5:30 AM, jtwork wrote:

> David,
>
> (somehow the last message was put in a new thread, returning it back to
> here...)
>
> Could you perhaps link me to one of these 3rd party tools or open toolkits?
> I'm new to working with these GPS receivers so I am quite unfamiliar with
> everything!
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
>
> davidkelley wrote
>> I am puzzled, you should at least be able to use one of 3rd party tools,
>> another open toolkit, or the vendors tools to prove this data stream can
>> be decoded.  There are many tools out there for Novatel.  Once that works,
>> I would then perhaps think the parser step can be of value.  If you send a
>> snapshot of what you are getting I can take a look, or ask a Novatel
>> person next week at ION, but your results seem odd to me. In my limited
>> experience people often presume a msg or data product in the stream that
>> is not in fact there, so I have learned to expend the effort to confirm
>> that first.
>>
>> Regards, David Kelley
>>

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